<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: excerpts&#8230;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://aaronmonts.com/2007/05/17/excerpts/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://aaronmonts.com/2007/05/17/excerpts/</link>
	<description>life. beauty. truth. generosity</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 16:41:22 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://aaronmonts.com/2007/05/17/excerpts/comment-page-1/#comment-26369</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 22:58:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aaronmonts.com/2007/05/17/excerpts/#comment-26369</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the explanation.  I think I&#039;d need to read his book to get the point better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the explanation.  I think I&#8217;d need to read his book to get the point better.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: monts</title>
		<link>http://aaronmonts.com/2007/05/17/excerpts/comment-page-1/#comment-26355</link>
		<dc:creator>monts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 18:57:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aaronmonts.com/2007/05/17/excerpts/#comment-26355</guid>
		<description>i agree with what you&#039;re saying adam, but i don&#039;t think that&#039;s the point that willard is necessarily making... and i think that&#039;s my fault for ripping his quote out of context---so let me explain what i think he&#039;s talking about.

in the first question he&#039;s making a stark contrast between converting to &quot;christianity&quot;---or more clearly: a particular &quot;faith and practice&quot;---and becoming an actual disciple of Jesus.  he&#039;s calling us, in regards to baptism and everything else, to ask the question, &quot;what are they converting to?&quot; christianity based upon our &quot;faith and practice&quot; or discipleship.

i don&#039;t think it has anything to do with whether or not they are ready by reaching a certain milestone or point (rounding the bases), but rather the teachability or frame of mind that the person has before getting baptized.  i think he&#039;s calling for attitudinal preparedness instead of climbling the ladder.  so, your call at the end of &quot;let&#039;s be careful not to trade easy believism for legalistic righteousness&quot; is in a sense exactly what willard is pointing out but is taking it a step further and saying---&quot;look there&#039;s a third way here.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i agree with what you&#8217;re saying adam, but i don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s the point that willard is necessarily making&#8230; and i think that&#8217;s my fault for ripping his quote out of context&#8212;so let me explain what i think he&#8217;s talking about.</p>
<p>in the first question he&#8217;s making a stark contrast between converting to &#8220;christianity&#8221;&#8212;or more clearly: a particular &#8220;faith and practice&#8221;&#8212;and becoming an actual disciple of Jesus.  he&#8217;s calling us, in regards to baptism and everything else, to ask the question, &#8220;what are they converting to?&#8221; christianity based upon our &#8220;faith and practice&#8221; or discipleship.</p>
<p>i don&#8217;t think it has anything to do with whether or not they are ready by reaching a certain milestone or point (rounding the bases), but rather the teachability or frame of mind that the person has before getting baptized.  i think he&#8217;s calling for attitudinal preparedness instead of climbling the ladder.  so, your call at the end of &#8220;let&#8217;s be careful not to trade easy believism for legalistic righteousness&#8221; is in a sense exactly what willard is pointing out but is taking it a step further and saying&#8212;&#8221;look there&#8217;s a third way here.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Adam G.</title>
		<link>http://aaronmonts.com/2007/05/17/excerpts/comment-page-1/#comment-26344</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 14:37:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aaronmonts.com/2007/05/17/excerpts/#comment-26344</guid>
		<description>&quot;What authority or basis do I have to baptize people who have not been brought to a clear decision to be a disciple of Christ? Dare I tell people, as &#039;believers&#039; without discipleship, that they are at peace with God and God with them? Where can I find justification for such a message? Perhaps more important: Do I as a minister have the faith to undertake the work of disciple-making?&quot;

Make no mistake, I am 100% behind the practice of real discipleship, seeing it as essention to being truly missional.  The quote above, though, worries me for two reasons.

First, I don&#039;t like the idea of putting off baptism until someone is &quot;ready.&quot;  How are you going to define ready?  The Ethiopian in Acts was &quot;ready&quot; after a relatively brief presentation of the Gospel.  He didn&#039;t have to prove himself as a disciple before being allowed to be baptized.  In fact, baptism appears to be the door into discipleship, if we read scripture honestly.

Second, at what point are we crossing the anti-biblical line of promoting what the Protestant Reformation call &quot;works-righteousness&quot;?   I, for one, will never be worthy of God&#039;s mercy, and would be fooling myself to think that any feeling or exertion of effort could make me good enough to &quot;make the cut.&quot;

Yes, we desperately need for the church to capture the idea of genuine discipleship.  This is an ages-old problem that past generations have attempted to address, even as we now approach it in our own times.  But let&#039;s be careful not to trade easy believism for legalistic righteousness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;What authority or basis do I have to baptize people who have not been brought to a clear decision to be a disciple of Christ? Dare I tell people, as &#8216;believers&#8217; without discipleship, that they are at peace with God and God with them? Where can I find justification for such a message? Perhaps more important: Do I as a minister have the faith to undertake the work of disciple-making?&#8221;</p>
<p>Make no mistake, I am 100% behind the practice of real discipleship, seeing it as essention to being truly missional.  The quote above, though, worries me for two reasons.</p>
<p>First, I don&#8217;t like the idea of putting off baptism until someone is &#8220;ready.&#8221;  How are you going to define ready?  The Ethiopian in Acts was &#8220;ready&#8221; after a relatively brief presentation of the Gospel.  He didn&#8217;t have to prove himself as a disciple before being allowed to be baptized.  In fact, baptism appears to be the door into discipleship, if we read scripture honestly.</p>
<p>Second, at what point are we crossing the anti-biblical line of promoting what the Protestant Reformation call &#8220;works-righteousness&#8221;?   I, for one, will never be worthy of God&#8217;s mercy, and would be fooling myself to think that any feeling or exertion of effort could make me good enough to &#8220;make the cut.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes, we desperately need for the church to capture the idea of genuine discipleship.  This is an ages-old problem that past generations have attempted to address, even as we now approach it in our own times.  But let&#8217;s be careful not to trade easy believism for legalistic righteousness.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: monts</title>
		<link>http://aaronmonts.com/2007/05/17/excerpts/comment-page-1/#comment-26324</link>
		<dc:creator>monts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 03:34:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aaronmonts.com/2007/05/17/excerpts/#comment-26324</guid>
		<description>i know... he took them from this book! :)

the more i read and the more i listen to rob, the more i realize rob&#039;s a really good reader.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i know&#8230; he took them from this book! <img src='http://aaronmonts.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>the more i read and the more i listen to rob, the more i realize rob&#8217;s a really good reader.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://aaronmonts.com/2007/05/17/excerpts/comment-page-1/#comment-26318</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 02:53:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aaronmonts.com/2007/05/17/excerpts/#comment-26318</guid>
		<description>Rob had some great thoughts on this very topic a few weeks ago...well worth a listen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob had some great thoughts on this very topic a few weeks ago&#8230;well worth a listen.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Performance optimized by W3 Total Cache. Learn more: http://www.w3-edge.com/wordpress-plugins/

Served from: aaronmonts.com @ 2012-05-22 23:00:34 -->
