Comments on: We’ve shot all our dreamers… http://aaronmonts.com/2009/10/02/weve-shot-all-our-dreamers/ life. beauty. truth. generosity Sun, 05 Sep 2010 16:59:41 -0600 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: thom http://aaronmonts.com/2009/10/02/weve-shot-all-our-dreamers/comment-page-1/#comment-42572 thom Fri, 23 Oct 2009 19:34:40 +0000 http://aaronmonts.com/?p=2031#comment-42572 Aaron... I do know WHAT you're saying, but it doesn't make sense. I'll try to briefly explain: First, it was kind of funny that you defaulted to the old... Giving the credit to the devil for our "shortcomings and failings". But actually, I was trying to engage you the other way: That is, in discussing the divine inspiration for our dreams & ideas! Second, I was genuinely asking that you would share your dreams & ideas, because it IS the heart of the issue. By definition alone, philosophy and ideology begins with risky ideas about the way things should be. In this case, church done different! I guess what I'm getting at is this... Did you believe you were hearing God's unique plan for creating a loving community within the greater community in San Fran when you started on this adventure? If so, and you've already "retreated on going back into the tried and true philosophies of churches both past/present instead of what originally fired us up about planting a church"... I would ask you... Are you frikkin kidding??? LOL... Seriously, you are already going down the wrong road & you just started! Please let me gently advise you to get fired up and remind you to revisit all those dreams & ideas and not let the devil (or if you choose to not to "over-spiritualize" it) OR anyone else for that matter, to pull you back to the "tried and true" version of the church!!! It may have been tried but it doesn't mean it's true. If that makes sense? Anyway... Good Luck and I still would love to hear your thoughts on community building, really. grace&peace... t.f. Aaron…
I do know WHAT you’re saying, but it doesn’t make sense.
I’ll try to briefly explain:

First, it was kind of funny that you defaulted to the old… Giving the credit to the devil for our “shortcomings and failings”. But actually, I was trying to engage you the other way: That is, in discussing the divine inspiration for our dreams & ideas! Second, I was genuinely asking that you would share your dreams & ideas, because it IS the heart of the issue. By definition alone, philosophy and ideology begins with risky ideas about the way things should be. In this case, church done different!

I guess what I’m getting at is this…
Did you believe you were hearing God’s unique plan for creating a loving community within the greater community in San Fran when you started on this adventure? If so, and you’ve already “retreated on going back into the tried and true philosophies of churches both past/present instead of what originally fired us up about planting a church”…

I would ask you… Are you frikkin kidding??? LOL…
Seriously, you are already going down the wrong road & you just started!

Please let me gently advise you to get fired up and remind you to revisit all those dreams & ideas and not let the devil (or if you choose to not to “over-spiritualize” it) OR anyone else for that matter, to pull you back to the “tried and true” version of the church!!!

It may have been tried but it doesn’t mean it’s true. If that makes sense? Anyway… Good Luck and I still would love to hear your thoughts on community building, really.

grace&peace… t.f.

]]> By: You Can Do It! « re-dreaming the dream http://aaronmonts.com/2009/10/02/weve-shot-all-our-dreamers/comment-page-1/#comment-42569 You Can Do It! « re-dreaming the dream Fri, 16 Oct 2009 20:50:55 +0000 http://aaronmonts.com/?p=2031#comment-42569 [...] Thanks, Aaron ! [...] [...] Thanks, Aaron ! [...]

]]> By: monts http://aaronmonts.com/2009/10/02/weve-shot-all-our-dreamers/comment-page-1/#comment-42558 monts Tue, 13 Oct 2009 04:21:05 +0000 http://aaronmonts.com/?p=2031#comment-42558 Thom, I think often times we give too much credit to the devil for our own shortcomings and failings. Often times we tend to use evil as the scapegoat for our own issues and challenges. At least that's how I would respond to the "voices in our head" idea... but at the same time I may find myself overemphasizing our humanity and reducing the spiritual realm based on many of my experiences with over-spiritualized people who blame a runny nose on the Devil's Minions! I can't really share what the dreams and ideas that seemed risky & reckless because I don't think that gets to the heart of the issue for us. Our biggest risk was our philosophy of ministry, the ideology and values that were the driving force behind trying something different. It was our philosophy and ideology that we retreated on going back into the tried and true philosophies of churches both past/present instead of what originally fired us up about planting a church. Does that make sense? Thom, I think often times we give too much credit to the devil for our own shortcomings and failings. Often times we tend to use evil as the scapegoat for our own issues and challenges. At least that’s how I would respond to the “voices in our head” idea… but at the same time I may find myself overemphasizing our humanity and reducing the spiritual realm based on many of my experiences with over-spiritualized people who blame a runny nose on the Devil’s Minions!

I can’t really share what the dreams and ideas that seemed risky & reckless because I don’t think that gets to the heart of the issue for us. Our biggest risk was our philosophy of ministry, the ideology and values that were the driving force behind trying something different. It was our philosophy and ideology that we retreated on going back into the tried and true philosophies of churches both past/present instead of what originally fired us up about planting a church.

Does that make sense?

]]> By: thom http://aaronmonts.com/2009/10/02/weve-shot-all-our-dreamers/comment-page-1/#comment-42557 thom Fri, 09 Oct 2009 14:40:12 +0000 http://aaronmonts.com/?p=2031#comment-42557 First... Happy Belated, 30th Birthday Aaron!!! Enjoyed this post & always appreciate the honesty in your writing! Just wondering if you believe that the "voices in our head" that inspire our best dreams & ideas AND cause human beings to "shoot ourselves" can still be attributed to God and the Devil? Not to mention the naysayers that are always shooting down any ideas that are outside and would bring about change! Now I've been following your adventure to San Fran and I must say... From the outside looking in (website & pics), IKON "appears" to be an interesting community, that if I were looking, would be attracted to!!! So... As one in the beginning stages of inviting others to co-create a spiritual community. I'm always curious about the original vision, "full of dreams and ideas, hopes and possibilities"... I understand human nature: The "fear and unrealistic expectations" that causes people to move back to safety... But in your case and if you don't mind sharing, I would like to hear some of the ideas in your mind that seem so risky & reckless, that choked the life out of your original vision for IKON... Please??? I'm a big believer in the "think tank" mentality of casting a BIG vision with everyone present... Most times when I'm confronted with hostility or a blank look, I know I'm on to something worth pursuing! I am also a big believer in at least attempting to try everything... Nothing ventured, nothing gained, know what I mean? I look forward to hearing your thoughts, thanks!!! grace&peace... t.f. First… Happy Belated, 30th Birthday Aaron!!!
Enjoyed this post & always appreciate the honesty in your writing!

Just wondering if you believe that the “voices in our head” that inspire our best dreams & ideas AND cause human beings to “shoot ourselves” can still be attributed to God and the Devil? Not to mention the naysayers that are always shooting down any ideas that are outside and would bring about change!

Now I’ve been following your adventure to San Fran and I must say…
From the outside looking in (website & pics), IKON “appears” to be an interesting community, that if I were looking, would be attracted to!!!

So…
As one in the beginning stages of inviting others to co-create a spiritual community. I’m always curious about the original vision, “full of dreams and ideas, hopes and possibilities”… I understand human nature: The “fear and unrealistic expectations” that causes people to move back to safety…
But in your case and if you don’t mind sharing, I would like to hear some of the ideas in your mind that seem so risky & reckless, that choked the life out of your original vision for IKON… Please???

I’m a big believer in the “think tank” mentality of casting a BIG vision with everyone present… Most times when I’m confronted with hostility or a blank look, I know I’m on to something worth pursuing!

I am also a big believer in at least attempting to try everything…
Nothing ventured, nothing gained, know what I mean?

I look forward to hearing your thoughts, thanks!!!

grace&peace… t.f.

]]> By: Dan http://aaronmonts.com/2009/10/02/weve-shot-all-our-dreamers/comment-page-1/#comment-42548 Dan Sat, 03 Oct 2009 20:36:16 +0000 http://aaronmonts.com/?p=2031#comment-42548 Amazing to me how if you really believe this, you are so supportive, almost cult-worshipping so - of big government and the liberal movement - taking choice, decision, and entrepenourship out of the abilities of a single man and placing control into big government. Doesn't make much sense. Or, perhaps, you're realizing the mistakes of your warlier ways :-) Amazing to me how if you really believe this, you are so supportive, almost cult-worshipping so – of big government and the liberal movement – taking choice, decision, and entrepenourship out of the abilities of a single man and placing control into big government.

Doesn’t make much sense. Or, perhaps, you’re realizing the mistakes of your warlier ways :-)

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